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Old 06-22-2009, 07:50 PM
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Default more subfloor info

Author: Sherlyn
Date: 4/27/2008 12:57 am EDT
We are in the procaess of re-doing our bathroom and are considering avaire tile as a flooring option. We have pulled up 2 layers of lino, and underneath all of that was tile (from back in the 50's) with black tar glue...of course the paper from the back of the tiles is now stuck to the floor. Would we be required to add another sub-floor? I really don't want to because of height difference, or how much of this paper/tar etc. needs to be removed in order to install avaire tile?
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:51 PM
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Author: Jonathan
Date: 4/27/2008 3:49 pm EDT
Wow, sounds like an interesting archeology project....

If I read the situation correctly, there is a layer of sticky tar/glue exposed. You won't want to install Avaire tile directly on the tar/glue. If the floor is flat enough, you could install a very thin layer (1/8") underlayment that would isolate the tar/glue from the Avaire tile. That won't add much height, but will give you a smooth, flat, clean surface for the Avaire tile.

Three reasons you don't want to place Avaire tile directly on the glue. First, without knowing the composition of the glue, there could be an interaction between the polymer tray and the glue. Second, it may be difficult to properly install the Avaire tile over a sticky substance since the installation method requires the tiles to interlock while flat. Last, since the floor is designed to float, you might hear the tile "sticking" and "unsticking" to the glue below when you walk on it.

Let us know what you end up doing.

Thanks for considering Avaire.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:52 PM
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Author: Sherlyn
Date: 4/27/2008 4:32 pm EDT
We have scraped most of the glue and paper off, and it is not sticky at all any more, just mainly a very very thin paper. Do you think a sub-floor need to be added?
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:53 PM
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Author: Journeyman
Date: 4/27/2008 5:28 pm EDT
Sherlyn,

That black sticky adhesive is known as "cutback" used for many years for vinyl floor installations. It shouldn't be a concern in your case and it is impossible to remove all of it. Leave it alone after scraping what you can.

You CAN NOT install a subfloor material over the old tile you found there, that wouldn't be a good idea, no real way to attach it.

If your floor is within the recommended tolerances of any tile floor which is flat within 1/4" in 10 feet your Avaire tile installation should be fine.

Go for it and enjoy your new tile floor.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:54 PM
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Author: Sherlyn
Date: 4/27/2008 5:47 pm EDT
Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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Author: Chris
Date: 4/27/2008 7:21 pm EDT
I think journeyman is correct in saying the cutback (black tar)adhesive should be fine to go over. any home center will carry a cement based patching compound that could be used to skim over the old adhesive to encapulate it if needed.

The big thing were not addressing it old resilient flooring with cutback from the fifties most likely contains asbestoes and care should be taken when any removal is performed.codes vary by location, but most will allow homeowners to perform the work themselves without penalties.your local health and human service office should be able to give you advise on how to handle the removal or if its appropriate to have a professional to the work.

Avaire tile is a perfect product to go over old asbestoes products, and it will last for many many years. so protect your health and saftey so you can enjoy your new floor for many many years.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
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Author: Journeyman
Date: 4/28/2008 9:47 pm EDT
I intentionally didn't mention the possibility of the asbestos presence in the old adhesive but now that it has been brought up I'll also mention that asbestos in that particular product isn't usually a concern. It is only when asbestos becomes air-born that health issues could result and even then adverse situations would be arguable.

Those products should not be sanded or vacuumed without a HEPA filter and in most states where property owners are allowed to remove their own asbestos flooring products it is recommended that the floor be kept wet during scraping and the residue be deposited in plastic trash bags and closed tightly before going into the trash.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:56 PM
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Author: leslie fasteen
Date: 5/18/2008 11:27 am EDT
can you install over ceramic tile.
What do you use to cut?
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:57 PM
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Author: Jonathan
Date: 5/18/2008 5:43 pm EDT
Ideally, you'd want to remove the old tile before installing Avaire tile. However, we've seen some installations of Avaire tile directly over existing ceramic tile. You'd want to ensure there weren't any loose tiles, or high edges that would serve as a "lever point". The key is you need a flat and stable surface for a successful Avaire tile installation.

If you try it, please send us pictures "before", "during" and "after" the installtion to matt.lessman@avairefloors.com.

Thank you for considering Avaire tile!
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